How to Create a Digital Product if Your A Service Based Business
How to Create a Digital Product if Your A Service Based Business

Episode #21

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Join me for episode #21 where Copywriter Alyson Lex joins me as we unpack how to create a digital product if you're a service-based business. Have you ever wanted to create a product, but don't know where to start? In this honest #realtalk episode.

Alyson busts the myths and speaks deeply and honestly and lays out the practical steps to launching your first product. Some of the key takeaways from this episode include: Understanding the science behind pricing your courses and the strategies that will make you sales.

The importance of YOU and bringing who you are into your marketing if you want to connect with your ideal audience authentically Why sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and start your own business to help create your security

How your past skills and experiences will help serve your customers in so many ways down the line. Why it doesn't have to be service-based or client based, you can have it both ways!

Learn all about the bonus sandwich! But my biggest takeaway from this episode was the importance of selling people the transformation, but in doing so, don't promise them the world and then under deliver.

Because that will damage the relationship's longevity, make sure whatever you provide, you fully follow through on and create a massive transformation in your client's life.

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Full Transcript

Hey everybody. Welcome to episode 21 of the Visualise You Show, how are you doing? How is 2021 treating you? It is snowing here in the UK. Have you made a snowman? Do you want to make a snowman? I should have said, do you want to build a snowman? So, this first two weeks of 2021 has been crazy. What is going on in the world of Beth I’ve seen lots of signs relating to money and abundance. So, I'm having lots of conversations about money and abundance. And I am having people send me emails about mindset, money mindset, and my friend KJ sent me a book, which is amazing. Let me just find this book so I can tell you what it's called.

It's called Overcoming Under Earning and it's by Barbara Stanny. And it is a five-step plan to a [00:01:00] richer life. And Barbara Stanley has a number of amazing books on audible and all the places you can buy books. And it's about overcoming your money, fears and earning what you deserve.

So maybe 2021 has got you thinking about money and abundance and what you want to create in 2021. And this is really the reason why I wanted to share with you today's episode. So, this is an episode that I recorded quite a while ago in 2020, and it's with my friend, Alyson Lex. And the interview. Is actually a guest expert episode.

So, it's slightly different to the usual format that you will be used to. I think it's the second one that we've done in this format, but that allows me to really go into a lot more detail with our guest expert and to ask some amazing questions that are really going to help you. If you are thinking about creating [00:02:00] products for your service-based businesses. So, in this episode, some of the things that we cover include the science behind pricing courses and the strategy of making sales.

But using Alyson's own words, hashtag #ealtalk. She really busts through the myths about product creation. Some of the things that you're probably not actually getting taught by other experts in this particular area.

 She shares really cool ways of identifying what your product might look like. And she is so generous with her expertise. We cover everything from micro courses, mini courses, tripwires all the way up to courses that have a comma in their price tag.

But one of the biggest takeaways that I think I got on this episode was the importance of selling people, the transformation, but in doing so you don't want to sell them the world and then fail, especially if you [00:03:00] want your customers to turn into long term customers.

Then we cover the psychology behind tripwires and different product pricing and all that amazing stuff. And if you've ever wondered how bonuses work, when selling digital products, you'll want to stick around for the bonus sandwich.

Okay. So if you are, thinking about, creating a product or have a product about to launch, there is so much amazing content in this episode, I have listened to it a number of times, and it will definitely be an episode that I go back to every time I think about creating a new course, or I think about launching a new course, and I really hope that you get out of it as much as I did.

I hope you enjoy this one.  [00:04:00]

Beth: [00:04:26] Welcome everybody too today's Visualise You show I'm joined today by Alyson Lex. Alyson is a 13 plus year veteran in the direct response copywriting field from her start as the Director of Marketing at Glazer Kennedy insider circle to her private business, helping hundreds of coaches, authors, and speakers on her new podcast.

Helping businesses to market and put their good out there into the world. She lives and breeds, effective marketing that works without selling your soul. And I think you've probably picked up now that I'm all about the soul. [00:05:00] So that's good to hear. That's good to hear that we're not selling our soul. So, we're going to find out about that today.

So, before we go into the topic that we're going to discuss today, which is all about courses and product creation, especially when you're a service-based business. I wanted to start by just asking you about Jack the Cat.

Alyson: [00:05:17] Jack the Cat. Oh boy, Jack. I do love him. So, I'm a crazy cat lady. We'll just put that one out there. I have eight cats. And Jack is Cat number five. Well, my husband saw a post on Facebook in, I don't know the date, it was the wintertime. It was a few days before Christmas. This little cat had been dumped out by his family after they moved.

And he was living under a bush and we thought we'll bring him home for the holidays. That was in 2014. And I just fell in love with them. So, we kept him. He was our first foster fail and last year we were having work done. We actually had a whole addition put on our home and one of the contractors left the door open and [00:06:00] Jack, the cat decided he was going to have a 43-day adventure.

And I was just devastated. I had seven other cats. It's not like I was like, catless but it's amazing how, when you have a certain dynamic in your home, that one. quote, unquote person or one being missing from that can really just throw everything off, but he's home. He's fine. He's fat and

Beth: [00:06:27] good. He's home. He's home. They just go. They just go out there. Don't they and they are up to no good. If they can get out there. And the reason why I want to ask her is around, I think we'll probably get onto it today, but it's around that personal side of marketing. I think one of the reasons why I asked you that question was I saw a post that you'd done in terms of how you relate everyday emotions, the things that going on in our everyday life and how that relates to actually marketing and making, making. what we teach more relatable to people on an everyday basis. So, I thought you did a really stellar genius job with that person.

[00:07:00] Alyson: [00:07:00] Thank you. That was one of my most, one of my favorite posts to write, not because of the subject matter. The subject matter was really hard because I was actually started writing it while he was still missing. But I do really think that bringing who you are and bringing your life into your marketing, into your business.

It's really important for a few reasons. One, especially we're going to talk about program and course creation. When you create programs and courses that you're teaching something you're selling you, you're selling who you are and what experience and expertise and knowledge and personality you have. And if you hide the personal side of you, if you don't let your people see that part of you.

They're not really going to be able to trust that you can connect with them to teach them what they need to know. So, I love adding my life into marketing.

Beth: [00:07:58] I'm with you on that one. [00:08:00] So Alyson, she wants to tell us a little bit about your journey. How, where did you start out? How did you move into, to copywriting and what are you doing now?

Alyson: [00:08:08] yeah, I fell into it completely by accident. So, my whole life, I wanted to be a teacher. When I was a kid, I would play school with the other kids and I would actually create homework for them. Like I really took it seriously. And in college I accidentally took a class that was meant for current teachers.

It was a continuing education class, not a degree course. And so, it was me and a whole room full of 10 plus year experienced teachers. And nobody in that room was happy, not one of them. And I thought I can't sign up for this. I can't. I can't do this for my whole life. I can't be this unhappy, but then I had that existential crisis because my whole life I've been preparing for this.

What do I do now? I ended up, I left school. I got what I call a big girl job. The kind with benefits and health insurance, which [00:09:00] is not something you have to worry about. It's an American thing. but yeah. It was for this company, Glazer Kennedy insider circle. I was their administrative assistant.

And I just fell in love with it. I had no idea this whole world existed. I had a propensity for it, apparently all my psychology classes and creative writing classes and English double major, and all that prepared me to be a writer in a way that I didn't realize. And a little over three years after I started there, I left as the director of marketing.

So, I went from administrative assistant to marketing manager. To marketing director within three years. So, I really give Glazer Kennedy a lot of credit for seeing something in me as well, and allowing me to grow because they taught me, I had access to amazing resources, whatever I wanted to learn, I could learn.

And it really allowed me to grow in me. In my craft and my ability. So, after Glazer Kennedy, I was [00:10:00] working freelance. I had, at one point I ran out of money, so I got a job. And then I left that job for another job and got laid off from that job a week before I got married. So that was fun. So, I'm getting married in seven days and I get the pink slip and. I talked to my, then fiancé about it. And I was like, I think I just got to start my business again. I can't go through this anymore. I had left a previous job because I was stuck in this boys' club and there was no room for advancement. And then I got this new and then they laid me off and there's no security out there.

I have to make my own security and he. God love him. He went for it. And I joke that I married him for the health insurance, but that was in 2012. And it's not been the easiest road. Building a business isn't but now I'm successful. I have clients all the time. I've got, podcasts, I've got all these things [00:11:00] and I'm enjoying it.

Beth: [00:11:02] And that's the main thing. Isn't it?

Alyson: [00:11:03] It's been, that's like the short journey, short version of the journey. I'm trying not to spend, a whole four hours talking about my story.

Beth: [00:11:10] Ni but I think it's important for listeners to hear how we start out and how we end up doing what we do in and how we can take our experience from different things.

Alyson: [00:11:19] Absolutely. I've tempted carpet companies I've I was, I worked in real estate for a while. I. Where else did I work? I worked at a college bookstore. I've worked at a bar like I've worked at all of these places and every single one of those jobs has helped me in some way when it comes to serving my clients or growing my business.

And I think that it's really important to not discount the experience that you have. I remember volunteering for a charity putting in and helping to put together a gala. And that was my first insight into what event planning. And now I write copy. So, it, it all comes together and all of the [00:12:00] experience that people have can really affect the way that they serve their clients.

If they're a service provider, the way they put content out there and just run your business,

Beth: [00:12:09] absolutely right. Should we get into it then? Let's talk about product creation for service businesses. Nearly forgot what we're talking about there.

Alyson: [00:12:20] There's

Beth: [00:12:21] so engrossed in the story.

Alyson: [00:12:22] there's so many things we can talk about. So, before we dive into like how to do it or anything like that, I think it's really important to talk about why to do it. And I'm a service business owner. So, I get it. There are so many people out there that are telling you to stop trading hours for dollars.

And we believe that, and we want to grow our businesses. We want to scale up. And we think that maybe having a product that we can create one time and sell to people multiple times is the best way to do that. I'm going to say it is [00:13:00] a way to do that. I'm not going to agree that it's the best. So, I'm trying to be, hashtag #realtalk here.

I have launched products. I have not been this huge, amazing success. There's a lot of factors that go into launching a product. One thing that I've discovered. Is that my service business audience is not appropriate for a product. My service business audience wants me to do it for them. They have a totally different profile than people who want a DIY or do it yourself solution.

And so, when you create a product to launch it, have you spent time building that audience? Of the right people, or are you going to try to launch a product to the current list or audience that you have? Is that going to work? Another thing that I think a lot of people fall into this trap is that it's passive [00:14:00] income, that you create it once and you don't ever have to do anything ever.

Again, it is not passive. It is very much active. You're just doing different activities and. you're focused on lead generation and visibility and getting it out there and just driving leads and optimizing the funnel. And there's a lot of work that goes in behind the scenes that, you're not selling services to a client, but you are still selling something.

So, there's still work. And I think the other thing that people don't think about is that. If you have gotten to a point where you're charging a premium rate for your services if you're at the point where you're topping out the market. And I find that's when a lot of service businesses go integrating a product is, they just can't raise their rates anymore.

So there really is no way for them to make more money. They've topped out on the income. That is still going to be a big breadwinner for you. And [00:15:00] so what I like to do and with my business is I have products and I have things and they, instead of just driving everyone to a product, I love to drive them to the product.

If they're not a fit for my service, I still want clients. I love my clients. First of all, they make the money. They make me money. I love the relationship that I get to have with my clients. It keeps my feet on the ground. I still, I'm continually developing my abilities. So, when you're thinking about creating in a program or a course, or a signature product or whatever, it is really think about what your goals are for your business and what you want it to look like a year, two years, five years down the road.

Do you want to eventually move out of being a service provider? If so, how are you going to do that financially? So that you're not just feast or feminine yourself. So, I've launched a product. I launched my first product and I [00:16:00] focused a hundred percent of my attention on that, but what I wasn't focusing on was getting new clients.

And so, I had a couple really rough months because the product wasn't selling as well as I had hoped or planned for, and I didn't have clients. So, it was like, I don't have any money. So, before we talk about anything about how to create it, which I'm happy to talk about that at length, I just really wanted to set some of those expectations up that this.

Jumping into it and thinking, Oh, this is a great idea because I heard someone talk about it on a podcast. Or I saw a webinar. I never want to stop anybody from making moves in their business. But I do want to say this has been my experience. It's harder than it sounds to be successful with it. It can be an amazing compliment to an already thriving business.


Beth: [00:16:49] So do you think it's where it slots in the business? Like it's part of a particular journey or it's an add-on perhaps or it's solving a problem?

Alyson: [00:16:58] Yeah. So, I have, [00:17:00] right now I have a product that has a set of email marketing templates and there, I've got different templates for different things, and this is the product that I offer to people. If I'm on a call with them and their budget, just isn't going to cut it, to hire me, to write them for them.

You know what I mean? So, it's an option for people to still work with me at a lower investment than the completely custom done for you. Copy. That's a fantastic way to leverage products in your service business, because then you're reaching people who are out of in different budgets. Hey, you've got a done for you budget.

Awesome. Hey, you've got to do it yourself budget. Awesome. And even beyond budget, there are some people who just don't want to do it. They can afford to do it, or they can afford not to do it. They just don't want to; they're going to hire you. And there are some people that can afford to hire you, but this is something they love to do in my case, write copy.

They love to write copies, so they're going to do it [00:18:00] themselves. So, it doesn't even need to be budget. It can be mindset. It can be part of your client's journey. So, I love products as an add on, as something, in addition to your service, I think it's great.

Beth: [00:18:14] Okay. So, what would you say it, and some people, maybe think are maybe afraid to package that knowledge and wisdom, because the, maybe think that it might mean that the customers don't need them anymore? Perhaps if you know what I mean.

Alyson: [00:18:30] I get that. It's scary because you don't want to work yourself out of a job either. And If you set someone up for success, do they need to come back to you and pay you anymore? And when you're running your service business, you want them to keep coming back. Like it's much easier to sell an old client than it is to find a new one.

In my experience, we'll use my template system. So, there are people that have purchased that they were never going to buy my done [00:19:00] for you packages ever. They just weren't. So, this is a way that I can get them into my customer circle without that huge investment. Also, there are people that will purchase my templates system, who are checking me out.

They're not ready to invest the premium done for you price yet. This is a way for them to get to know me, to see what I'm about. And then make that jump. And the other thing is there is definitely a value difference between having me do it for you and having a template. The templates never change.

They don't get updated. You've got to fill them in yourself. Your custom copy is 100% custom. I don't use templates. When I write for clients, I might use an idea. I might use a swipe, but I don't use templates. I created these templates for this product. And so, the value is [00:20:00] different. I know that I can have this expert copywriter look at all my stuff, do all the research.

XYZ for me, or I can do it myself and spend the time to do it. Save some money, totally two totally different value propositions. And I really do believe that the customers who buy your products, they're just either not ready for the premium. They're not the right audience for the premium, or they need to know more before they're ready to dive into the premium.

And so, you can use your product. As a way to begin to ascend, it's an Ascension ladder thing. And so, you can get them to ascend up to the next level of customer ship, which I just made that word up.

Beth: [00:20:45] It's a good word.

Alyson: [00:20:46] I think so. Thanks.

 [00:21:00] Beth: [00:21:51] so somebody is thinking about creating a product, where should they start? Let's just go back to basics.

Alyson: [00:21:57] The first place you just start is by writing [00:22:00] out your exact process. For what you do. Okay. So, if I am, let's say I'm a branding expert. I'm just trying to go away from the copywriter example, but I'm a branding expert and I have a process that I take my clients through to help them develop their brand.

I'm going to write down that process. Then I'm going to collect any resources that I deliver to my clients during that time. And I'm going to collect all those together too. We have, we're just in collection mode. Then I'm going to think about anything that my client you don't need to do before, during, or after my time, their time with me.

And I'm going to write all that down. I'm going to create a checklist out of that. Okay. So now I've got my process, my resources, and my checklist. For the process, I'm going to maybe say, okay, step one is X, Y, Z. I'm not a branding expert. So, I'm not even going to pretend to know what that process is. But [00:23:00] step one is ABC.

All right. I can do a quick video on this and resource one goes there. All right. Step two is this, I can do three videos on that resources, two and three go to, and I'm going to start building my modules. And so now you're teaching them and you're providing them a resource. All right. Now I'm going to probably end up doing more full episode on this with my own podcast later, but we'll share it anyway.

It's called the tap method to creating content that actually helps teach. Assign provide you, teach them something, assign them a homework or an exercise and provide a resource to help them, let him do it.

Beth: [00:23:43] Ooh, I like that.

Alyson: [00:23:44] So if I was going to say, just go back to the copy, I'm going to teach you how to write a great headline.

Now I want you to create 20 headlines. And here is a quick and dirty formula to help get you started. [00:24:00] I'm teaching you; I'm assigning you; I'm providing you and you were going to do that for every single module or every single step in your process. Okay. If you have a three-step process or a 12-step process, I don't care.

You're going to do the T AP for every single step. By the time you're done, you have now systemized what you do for clients. And you can choose to then create a huge group coaching program from all of the steps, which would be complete with access and accountability and coaching, or you can create a tiny DIY product, right?

There's a ton of names for it. Tiny offers is the first one I saw by Allie Buren pocket products I've seen. You can create one of those little mini products and maybe you just give them step one. Right or step one and two. So now that you have your whole process created, you can chunk it up. You can parse it out.

You can put it together [00:25:00] in multiple different ways to create different levels of engagement and investment with you. But then I want to talk about the bonuses.

So, I did do a podcast episode on this and it's called the bonus sandwich. And we go into depth. I believe its episode number eight, but don't quote me on that.

We go into depth on it, on my podcast, but the long and short of it is you want to create a sandwich out of your bonuses and your product, or course content, your course, or product content is the meat, cheese, and toppings, right? It's your burger, it's your cheese. It's your Mayo and lettuce and tomato. Your bonuses are the button.

Okay. So, when you're thinking about bonuses, you want to think about what they need to be ready for your course, or program or product, and what are they going to need to be successful afterward. And you send what your course in between before, during and after basically a lot of times in order to be ready [00:26:00] for the content that you're providing.

A lot of my clients will use mindset as there. The top button bonus,

Beth: [00:26:07] to get people ready to be.

Alyson: [00:26:08] get people ready to make the change, to get that transformation, to implement, do whatever it needs to be done. If I was going to say, okay, we're going to write your sales page. Maybe my get ready bonus would be let's do all the research.

Here's your assignment for the two weeks before we start, okay. Then your bottom bun is everything they need to be successful afterward and not everything but something. So, this could be maybe you're in the case of branding. This could be here's how to use your new brand. Here's how to launch your new brand on social media.

Or with copy this. If I were to do a signature sales page thing, it would be maybe here's how to promote a launch or a dating coach, because I've given this, I gave this example in the [00:27:00] podcast, right? So, I'm going to help you meet great people online. So, my, my top bun bonus would be some mindset stuff, right?

Here's how to get some confidence and get ready to go and meet great guys. My bottom bun bonus would maybe be how to slay that first date. Get them ready, help them be successful. So, you've got your system. You can parcel it out any way you want, but you're also going to help them be successful before and after.

Beth: [00:27:31] Yeah. And I think that's really important because you see, I think there's a little bit of what it's done in the wrong way, this bonus fatigue, because people just throw any old crap from the depth of time that they've had this PDF on their computer, or they wrote something in 2010, which is just not relevant, but, and the put out that it just more damage than good, because it's not aligned. But I think that it's a really great concept to the sandwich because. [00:28:00] Everybody can relate to eating a sandwich. But also, you can see it. So, if people were to go, look at some courses today, you'll see, you'll probably see not in all cases, but where it's done correctly.

You'll see that value before and afterwards. So, I just don't think I've ever heard it explained in that way, but you, so you talk about that on your podcast.

Alyson: [00:28:21] Yeah. So, we did a whole episode on the bonus sandwich. We talked about maybe where you can get some of them, how you can build them. From content that you already have content, you can easily create other people's content. So, I've been a bonus for people's courses. I've delivered content. That is a bonus for some people's courses.

And it works for me. It's, it takes me half an hour. What do I care? You know what I mean? But it, it delivers value, and it helps them be successful beyond just what you're giving them. In the meat. And I think what we want to [00:29:00] always make sure no matter what kind of course that we're creating, or program is that we are really delivering that transformation, even if we're not a transformative coach, because not everybody is, but our clients are always looking for an end result.

They're always looking to be an after. Whether they're looking to get our new brand, or they want new copy, or they're looking to meet a guy online, or they're just trying to take care of their books, their finances, whatever they're trying to do, they want that after state. If your program doesn't actually help them get there.

What can you add to it to make sure it does? Because when we sell the program, we're going to sell them the after state. We're going to sell them on that. And if we can't deliver that, if it doesn't hold up, that's when you get people who are [00:30:00] unhappy. That's when you get refund requests, chargebacks, and that's not what you want to do.

Now, if you sell them a tiny program, right? You parse it out, you sell them that many mini offers or whatever. We're not going to promise the after we're going to promise the after of that module or that step or that piece. So, when it comes to selling your program, you really want to make sure you're only promising what you can and do actually deliver.

It's really easy to want to promise them the world to get that sale, but that's not going to end up in long-term fans. And especially if your goal is to get those people into your client world, into your customer circle so that they may pay those premium service prices later.

Beth: [00:30:54] Sure. So, while we're on bonuses and one of the other things that you see when people are packaging courses [00:31:00] is this overinflation of prices sometimes. What are your thoughts around that Because sometimes you can see straight through it and other times it's just a fireball, but have you got any, anything you can share maybe around the pricing of courses or what not?

Alyson: [00:31:16] So the way that I like to price them. Okay. You're actually asking two questions, pricing courses, and bonus values. So, I'm going to start with bonus values cause that one's a little more straightforward. I like to price a bonus at a price that I've previously sold it or that I would sell it if I'm planning to sell it.

So, I'm hosting, let's say I'm hosting a workshop next month and I'm planning to charge $47 for it. Cool. That's a $47 value right there. Hard and fast because that's what I'm charging for it. Now, if it's on my website as a recording, by the way, I am planning [00:32:00] to do this is a way you can create content.

I'm hosting a workshop and charging for it. Then I'm going to take the recording, put it on my website and charge 27 for it because there's value in being there live. They're not getting that value. I'm going to discount the price, but it still has a $47 value because that's what I charged for it. Okay. I have a bonus for the email templates. It's an email. What do I call it? The mega emails, what the subject line swipe file or something. And I forget what value I put on that, but let's say I put $97 on it because I would sell it for $97. There are like 600 subject line templates in there. It's huge. You know what I mean? So, if I and make sure it's in line with the rest of it.

If you're selling a $2,000 program and giving them a $7 bonus boring, if you're selling a $7 program and giving them a [00:33:00] $2,000 bonus. Unbelievable. So where can it be in line a $47 program with a $47 bonus believable, $150 program with a $97 bonus believable. And the end intriguing. So, you really want to make sure the bonus value price is a true if you've sold it before or be in line with the pricing of your program itself.

Now, when it comes to your program, there are different price points for different interactions. Okay. I have a client who did sell her, basically her first version of a group coaching program for $350. And it was 12 weeks. That's entirely too cheap. They don't have the financial buy-in to stick with you.

She did a really [00:34:00] amazing job at engaging everyone. And they actually, using her as an example is probably a bad idea. Because she, she was amazing with this thing. I still don't know how she did it. She kept her people engaged. She created a community from them was it was really beautiful to watch, but she, this, like if she launches it again, I’m telling her to go with least $1750, so if you're doing the mini offers. Those are going to be your low-price ones. A lot of people also hear them as like trip wires. So, trip wires are between $7 and $27. Many offers are usually $27 to $47. And then you have your standard, which is anywhere between $47 and one $97. And then you start to get into your more premium programs.

Beth: [00:34:51] But with, so with, the low entry trip wires then, there's normally an up sale, or do people do them just to get people on the lists?

[00:35:00] Alyson: [00:34:59] So there's a couple of reasonings. If you go with where tripwires originally came from, which is, the concept's been around for forever, but Ryan Deiss of digital marketer really started talking about them a few years ago. The whole idea between behind the seven or $17 trip wire is to change the relationship from lead to buyer because it does.

And the whole idea behind that is that the easiest person to sell to is someone who's already purchased from you. That's just the way it is. So, by getting them to hop into that, having purchased from your category, it's then easier to sell them larger things down the road. The mini offers really, it’s like it's called a self-liquidating offer.

And the whole idea behind those is that they can leverage Facebook ads or other advertising avenues and have the product pay for it. So [00:36:00] as long as if their product is $47 and as long as they're make, it costs them less than $47 to get that sale, they're breaking even. And they're adding X number of people to their list.

It’s basically free lead generation is the way that it's positioned. Now. Of course, the caveat Facebook ads are hard. So, I just want to put that out there. If you're not already a Facebook ads expert, you're going to need to be one, or you're going to need to hire one. If that's the route you take, because they're hard, it's hard to get them really working and it's hard to tap them in.

And it's, again, it's not passive. And then once you go beyond that, when you get to the 47 and above offers, those are typically the offers that you make to a warmer list. People who are already warmer leads to you. Once you get into the multiple hundreds, or you put a comma in that price tag, it requires a sales call.

All right. It [00:37:00] used to require a webinar. I would say a webinar for anything. Over 97 or above for sure. A webinar or live video or something where they're there, they're getting content. And then a pitch. If it has a comma, it needs to be a sales call. End of discussion. No question. And so, when it comes to pricing, your course also considers how do you want to sell it?

Do you want to do sales calls? If not, do not put a comment in that price tag just don't do it. Do you want to do a webinar? If not, that'd be under a hundred bucks. You know what I mean? Do you want to run Facebook like that? So yeah, of course. We want to look at the value that they're going to get. I want to look at the transformation they're going to receive, but really in order to begin thinking about a price.

We need to look at it from our business side. How do we want to do it? Because that's going to direct us on [00:38:00] everything else. If I don't want to do sales calls ever, why would I put out a huge 22 module group coaching program that I know is going to need to be at least three grands? If I don't want to do a sales call, so that's going to help me reduce my effort or change my effort or refocus my effort to something else.

That makes sense.

Beth: [00:38:21] Yeah, absolutely. So, you mentioned about Facebook ads be ng hard for some people, and there, will be experts out there and people who can. ease that burdens a little bit, but if you were starting a course today and you've got a course coming out shortly, I think you've mentioned.

How would you market your course and what would you say is an easy way for people to get started?

Alyson: [00:38:45] yeah, my podcast cohost, Jenny, and I, we have started with a phrase. You either have to work for it or pay for it. And that is very true when it comes to traffic and visibility, you can either pay for it with [00:39:00] Facebook ads and getting visibility and paying to be on stages and all of that. Or you can work for it.

You can do organic promotion; you can work to grow your audience. You can, hustle basically. And so, if I were launching, of course tomorrow I would have started two months ago. Building my audience, engaging my audience, creating a ton of buzz. And then tomorrow I would probably start promoting a webinar.

Then I would promote that for nine or 10 days, host that webinar, sell the course on the webinar and then do it again. I'm doing another webinar. And then I would do another until the literal day, my course starts, if it's a group coaching program, so if I were doing kind of one of those where with a comment in it, price tags, that's how I would do it.

I would webinar drive to a sales call and sell them on the sales call and I would rinse and repeat until the day [00:40:00] my program actually starts; I would be enrolling people up to the night before.

Beth: [00:40:04] and not say, I think it's the multiple touch points. I think people that do it once and then it hasn't worked and it's not. It's that whole snowball effect it's that you don't know when the big one's going to come in, but it will come in. You just got to keep on that knocking on that door.

Alyson: [00:40:22] And so the podcast that I've referenced a few times now is new and I'm sorry for keep continuing to reference it. It's just so huge part of my business these days. But. I remember the first couple of weeks, I was like, this sucks. Nobody's listening. Nobody's commenting. Nobody's doing anything.

And then, Oh, I started to get a few more followers. Oh, I've got a lot of friend requests. Oh, we've got downloads. Oh, we've got leads. You know what I mean? Like it, the first couple of weeks it was like nothing. And then it was like, okay, we've got two, three more leads this week. Okay. We've got five or six this weekend.

It just grows and grows. And that's why. If you're going to [00:41:00] start promoting something, start building that audience months in advance. It should always be something you're doing,

Beth: [00:41:09] Yeah created the whole launch squad around my podcast because I want it to be, I want it to. I want it to have that longevity and I want to, market the hell out of it over the next, eight weeks once it's live, it's not just live today and that's it. And so, I'll probably do a solo show actually on that at some point and my experience of that, but it's yeah, it's not just a, one hit.

It's a, this is a business. If a brick-and-mortar business, you wouldn't just turn up to the office one day and go, we're not had any customers today. So, w we won't come back tomorrow. And I think we're three, we treat a little bit different because if you're purely an online business.

Alyson: [00:41:47] Exactly. Yeah. The thing is, as a service provider, it can be really tough to find the energy, the effort, the time to do all of this promotion. [00:42:00] And I will tell you, even before I launched a product, I started the self-promotion thing. I'm on podcasts, a lot. I'm in groups all the time and I get clients.

I get tagged in so many posts all the time in different groups. I'm in so many groups. I can't even tell you because somebody will tag me, and I just go join the group to grab the tag. But even after I started selling products, I still get clients from all the promotion I'm doing because the people that are following me may fall into that premium done for you camp.

And that it reminds them to reach out to me. I'll get a comment. Hey Alyson, awesome posts. Can we schedule a call? Sure. You can pay me a couple grand. No problem. So, it's, this kind of comes back to what I was saying earlier about forgetting about your clients. And focusing on the course, and it is really [00:43:00] hard to juggle both, but you can do both the client that I referenced that launched her course.

That was way underpriced. She scheduled calls from her webinars, and we call it prescriptive marketing, Jenny and I do. But on these calls, she didn't just say, I'm going to tell you about my program. She said, tell me what's going on. Where are you? What's what do you need? And if they identified with her through that call with her, that they were better suited for done for you work.

That's what she sold them. The sales calls do not just have to be one type. And it's, even if you have packages in your business, you're probably willing to say, okay, yeah, I can do this custom thing for you. I always give custom quotes because packages don't really work for me. But there's no reason that you can't generate sales calls from a webinar and fill your done for you or your service business pipeline, as well as sell your product.

[00:44:00] So figure out how to do both.

Beth: [00:44:01] Yeah. Okay. Different. Okay. So, when you've referenced your podcast episode a lot, and I will put it in the,

Alyson: [00:44:10] Thank you.

Beth: [00:44:10] because it’s, it’s all irrelevant, isn't it? I think find out more about the sandwich.

Alyson: [00:44:15] Yes, no bonus not much.

Beth: [00:44:17] but

Alyson: [00:44:17] I'm hungry now.

Beth: [00:44:19] what's next for you then in your business and where do you Visualise You moving in into the future with your new podcast and everything else that you've got going on?

Alyson: [00:44:28] So the podcast, I totally visualise staying caught up on this thing because wow production schedules are a beast, but for my business, there are a couple of things. There are some long-term goals that I've been considering. I'd love to write a book in the next year. I've actually been saying that for four years now.

So, I'd like to actually do it this time. And it would be really cool actually to build my copy business into an agency, more of an agency style. And what that would do is [00:45:00] I would still be involved in the writing, but not as much. And I'd be able to train other writers and help them on their careers as well, which would be amazing and launching products and just want to build an empire, man.

I just want the whole shebang.

Beth: [00:45:18] that’s great.

Alyson: [00:45:19] Yeah,

Beth: [00:45:20] Okay, thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom with our listeners today. Like I said, I'll put everything in the show notes. Is there any, anywhere that you would like to send people today to find it.

Alyson: [00:45:32] You can always head to the and that is the podcast website if you want to listen to any of the episodes that I've been rambling on about, you can check my website And from either one of those places, you can find me on all the socials and stuff. So

Beth: [00:45:49] And all those groups, you’re in

Alyson: [00:45:51] all those groups that I'm in.

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